汇编编程比高级语言(如c)花费更长的时间,更难编程,这似乎是一种主流观点。因此,出于这些原因以及更好的可移植性,似乎建议或假设用高级语言编写更好。
最近我一直在用x86汇编语言写作,我开始意识到这些原因可能都不是真的,除了可移植性。也许这更多的是一个熟悉的问题,知道如何写好汇编。我还注意到在汇编中编程与在HLL中编程有很大的不同。也许一个好的、有经验的汇编程序员可以像一个有经验的C程序员用C写程序一样轻松、快速地编写程序。
也许是因为汇编编程与hll有很大的不同,因此需要不同的思维、方法和方式,这使得对不熟悉的人编写程序看起来非常尴尬,因此给汇编编程带来了不好的名声。
如果可移植性不是问题,那么C语言比NASM这样的优秀汇编器有什么优势呢?
编辑:
我只是想指出。当你用汇编语言写作时,你不必只写指令代码。您可以使用宏、过程和您自己的约定来进行各种抽象,使程序更模块化、更可维护、更易于阅读。这就是熟悉如何编写好的汇编的原因。
我喜欢用汇编语言编程,但是用高级语言做同样的事情需要更多的代码,而且代码行和错误之间有直接的联系。(这在几十年前的《人月神话》中就有解释。)
可以把C语言看作是“高级汇编”,但再往上走几步,你就进入了另一个世界。在c#中,你不需要三思就可以写这样的代码:
foreach (string s in listOfStrings) { /* do stuff */ }
这将是几十行,甚至几百行的汇编代码,每个实现它的程序员将采用不同的方法,下一个来的人将不得不找出它。因此,如果您相信(许多人都相信)程序主要是为其他人阅读而编写的,那么汇编的可读性就不如典型的HLL。
编辑:我积累了一个用于常见任务的个人代码库,以及用于实现类c控制结构的宏。但在90年代,当gui成为常态时,我遇到了瓶颈。太多的时间被花在了例行公事上。
我的上一个需要使用ASM的任务是在几年前,编写代码来对抗恶意软件。没有用户界面,所以只有有趣的部分,没有臃肿的部分。
合理水平的汇编能力是一项有用的技能,特别是当您从事任何类型的系统级或嵌入式编程时,这并不是因为您必须编写那么多汇编程序,而是因为有时了解盒子的实际功能非常重要。如果您对汇编程序的概念和问题没有低级的理解,这可能会非常困难。
然而,至于在汇编器中实际编写大量代码,有几个原因导致它做得不多。
There's simply no (almost) need. Except for something like the very early system initialization and perhaps a few assembler fragments hidden in C functions or macros, all very low-level code that might once have been written in assembler can be written in C or C++ with no difficulty.
Code in higher-level languages (even C and C++) condenses functionality into far fewer lines, and there is considerable research showing that the number of bugs correlates with the number of lines of source code. Ie, the same problem, solved in assembler and C, will have more bugs in assembler simply because its longer. The same argument motivates the move to higher level languages such as Perl, Python, etc.
Writing in assembler, you have to deal with every single aspect of the problem, from detailed memory layout, instruction selection, algorithm choices, stack management, etc. Higher level languages take all this away from you, which is why are so much denser in terms of LOC.
从本质上讲,以上所有内容都与汇编程序与C或其他语言中可用的抽象级别有关。汇编程序迫使您自己制作所有的抽象,并通过您自己的自律来维护它们,而任何中级语言,如C,特别是高级语言,都可以为您提供开箱即用的抽象,以及相对容易地创建新抽象的能力。
除了其他人对可读性、可维护性、更短的代码从而更少的错误和更简单的回答之外,我还将添加一个额外的原因:
程序的速度。
Yes, in assembly you can hand tune your code to make use of every last cycle and make it as fast as is physically possible. However who has the time? If you write a not-completely-stupid C program, the compiler will do a really good job of optimizing for you. Probably making at least 95% of the optimizations you'd do by hand, without you having to worry about keeping track of any of it. There's definitely a 90/10 kind of rule here, where that last 5% of optimizations will end up taking up 95% of your time. So why bother?
当你用汇编语言写作时,你不必只写指令代码。您可以使用宏、过程和您自己的约定来进行各种抽象,使程序更模块化、更可维护、更易于阅读。
因此,您基本上是在说,通过熟练地使用复杂的汇编程序,您可以使ASM代码越来越接近C(或者您自己发明的另一种低级语言),直到最终您的工作效率与C程序员一样高。
这是否回答了你的问题?: -)
我并不是在无所事事地说:我已经使用这样的汇编器和系统进行了编程。更好的是,汇编程序可以以虚拟处理器为目标,并且一个单独的翻译程序可以为目标平台编译汇编程序的输出。与LLVM的IF很相似,但其早期形式比它早了大约10年。因此,有了可移植性,再加上为特定目标汇编器编写例程的能力,以提高效率。
Writing using that assembler was about as productive as C, and with by comparison with GCC-3 (which was around by the time I was involved) the assembler/translator produced code that was roughly as fast and usually smaller. Size was really important, and the company had few programmers and was willing to teach new hires a new language before they could do anything useful. And we had the back-up that people who didn't know the assembler (e.g. customers) could write C and compile it for the same virtual processor, using the same calling convention and so on, so that it interfaced neatly. So it felt like a marginal win.
这是在开发汇编程序技术、库等方面花费了许多人多年的工作。不可否认的是,其中大部分都是为了使其可移植,如果它只针对一种架构,那么所有唱歌所有跳舞的汇编器就会容易得多。
总而言之:你可能不喜欢C语言,但这并不意味着使用C语言的努力就比想出更好的东西的努力更大。
随着汇编变得越来越不常见,出现了一个恶性循环:随着高级语言的成熟,汇编语言指令集的构建越来越少地是为了方便程序员,而更多地是为了方便编译器。
So now, realistically, it may be very hard to make the right decisions on, say, which registers you should use or which instructions are slightly more efficient. Compilers can use heuristics to figure out which tradeoffs are likely to have the best payoff. We can probably think through smaller problems and find local optimizations that might beat our now pretty sophisticated compilers, but odds are that in the average case, a good compiler will do a better job on the first try than a good programmer probably will. Eventually, like John Henry, we might beat the machine, but we might seriously burn ourselves out getting there.
Our problems are also now quite different. In 1986 I was trying to figure out how to get a little more speed out of small programs that involved putting a few hundred pixels on the screen; I wanted the animation to be less jerky. A fair case for assembly language. Now I'm trying to figure out how to represent abstractions around contract language and servicer policy for mortgages, and I'd rather read something that looks close to the language that the business folks speak. Unlike LISP macros, Assembly macros don't enforce much in the way of rules, so even though you might be able to get something reasonably close to a DSL in a good assembler, it'll be prone to all sorts of quirks that won't cause me problems if I wrote the same code in Ruby, Boo, Lisp, C# or even F#.
如果您的问题很容易用高效的汇编语言来表达,那么您的能力就更强了。
你好,我是一个编译器。
I just scanned thousands of lines of code while you were reading this sentence. I browsed through millions of possibilities of optimizing a single line of yours using hundreds of different optimization techniques based on a vast amount of academic research that you would spend years getting at. I won't feel any embarrassment, not even a slight ick, when I convert a three-line loop to thousands of instructions just to make it faster. I have no shame to go to great lengths of optimization or to do the dirtiest tricks. And if you don't want me to, maybe for a day or two, I'll behave and do it the way you like. I can transform the methods I'm using whenever you want, without even changing a single line of your code. I can even show you how your code would look in assembly, on different processor architectures and different operating systems and in different assembly conventions if you'd like. Yes, all in seconds. Because, you know, I can; and you know, you can't.
附言:哦,顺便说一下,你没有使用你写的一半代码。我帮了你一个忙,把它扔了。
作为一名大部分时间都在嵌入式编程领域工作的开发人员,我认为汇编语言还远远没有成为一种死亡/过时的语言。有某种接近金属级别的编码(例如,在驱动程序中)有时不能用高级语言准确或有效地表达。我们几乎所有的硬件接口例程都是用汇编程序编写的。
That being said, this assembly code is wrapped such that it can be called from C code and is treated like a library. We don't write the entire program in assembly for many reasons. First and foremost is portability; our code base is used on several products that use different architectures and we want to maximize the amount of code that can be shared between them. Second is developer familiarity. Simply put, schools don't teach assembly like they used to, and our developers are far more productive in C than in assembly. Also, we have a wide variety of "extras" (things like libraries, debuggers, static analysis tools, etc) available for our C code that aren't available for assembly language code. Even if we wanted to write a pure-assembly program, we would not be able to because several critical hardware libraries are only available as C libs. In one sense, it's a chicken/egg problem. People are driven away from assembly because there aren't as many libraries and development/debug tools available for it, but the libs/tools don't exist because not enough people use assembly to warrant the effort creating them.
最后,任何语言都有适用的时间和地点。人们使用他们最熟悉和最有成效的东西。在程序员的程序库中可能总会有汇编的位置,但是大多数程序员会发现他们可以用一种高级语言编写代码,这种语言在更少的时间内几乎同样高效。
为什么?简单。
比较一下:
for (var i = 1; i <= 100; i++)
{
if (i % 3 == 0)
Console.Write("Fizz");
if (i % 5 == 0)
Console.Write("Buzz");
if (i % 3 != 0 && i % 5 != 0)
Console.Write(i);
Console.WriteLine();
}
with
.locals init (
[0] int32 i)
L_0000: ldc.i4.1
L_0001: stloc.0
L_0002: br.s L_003b
L_0004: ldloc.0
L_0005: ldc.i4.3
L_0006: rem
L_0007: brtrue.s L_0013
L_0009: ldstr "Fizz"
L_000e: call void [mscorlib]System.Console::Write(string)
L_0013: ldloc.0
L_0014: ldc.i4.5
L_0015: rem
L_0016: brtrue.s L_0022
L_0018: ldstr "Buzz"
L_001d: call void [mscorlib]System.Console::Write(string)
L_0022: ldloc.0
L_0023: ldc.i4.3
L_0024: rem
L_0025: brfalse.s L_0032
L_0027: ldloc.0
L_0028: ldc.i4.5
L_0029: rem
L_002a: brfalse.s L_0032
L_002c: ldloc.0
L_002d: call void [mscorlib]System.Console::Write(int32)
L_0032: call void [mscorlib]System.Console::WriteLine()
L_0037: ldloc.0
L_0038: ldc.i4.1
L_0039: add
L_003a: stloc.0
L_003b: ldloc.0
L_003c: ldc.i4.s 100
L_003e: ble.s L_0004
L_0040: ret
它们在功能上是相同的。
第二个甚至不是汇编程序,而是。net IL(中间语言,类似于Java的字节码)。第二次编译将IL转换为本地代码(即几乎是汇编程序),使其更加神秘。
我用汇编编程已经有一个月了。我经常用C写一段代码,然后把它编译成汇编来帮助我。也许我没有充分利用C编译器的优化功能,但似乎我的C asm源包含不必要的操作。所以我开始看到,一个好的C编译器胜过一个好的汇编编码器的说法并不总是正确的。
Anyways, my assembly programs are so fast. And the more I use assembly the less time it takes me to write out my code because it's really not that hard. Also the comment about assembly having poor legibility is not true. If you label your programs correctly and make comments when there is additional elaboration needed you should be all set. In fact in ways assembly is more clear to the programmer because they are seeing what is happening at the level of the processor. I don't know about other programmers but for me I like knowing what's happening, rather than things being in a sort of black box.
With that said the real advantage of compilers is that a compiler can understand patterns and relationships and then automatically code them in the appropriate locations in the source. One popular example are virtual functions in C++ which requires the compiler to optimally map function pointers. However a compiler is limited to doing what the maker of the compiler allows the compiler to do. This leads to programmers sometimes having to resort to doing bizarre things with their code , adding coding time, when they could have been done trivially with assembly.
Personally I think the marketplace heavily supports high level languages. If assembly language was the only language in existence today then their would be about 70% less people programming and who knows where our world would be, probably back in the 90's. Higher level languages appeal to a broader range of people. This allows a higher supply of programmers to build the needed infrastructure of our world. Developing nations like China and India benefit heavily from languages like Java. These countries will fast develop their IT infrastructure and people will become more interconnected. So my point is that high level languages are popular not because they produce superior code but because they help to meet demand in the world's marketplaces.
Oh hai, I'm a dataflow system. This App I'm running, are full of varrrious components. It's a distributed app, and it resides in 3 computers, on a powerful x86 and two smaller ARMs. Most of the components are written in C++, but there is a critical one written in ASM for the x86. Also, most components have several variations: compiled for different processors, also some components have special GPU versions. Shame or not, I have a script component (a wrapper component calls a script), which prints report, but only once a year. It doesn't even hurt that it's just a script, a slow script.
作为一个智能数据流应用程序,我知道,我的架构只适合特定的任务,其中信号/数据通过图形流动,例如自动化,视频/图像处理,音频处理(所有合成器使用数据流),但幸运的是,这些应用领域是非常需要功率的,其中优化是必不可少的。
我很确定有一天会出现一些其他的架构,它们也是关于优化(以及其他让编程更容易等的东西),它们将能够覆盖更多或其他领域,而我,数据流不能。
因此,“C vs ASM”的话题并不是一个真正的困境。这就像是在争论数字合成器还是模拟合成器更好(就像我之前提到的,我一直在研究合成器)。我建议,做好听的音乐。或倾听。无论什么。C不是相对于ASM。无论如何,我从未见过一个C程序被ASM攻击,反之亦然。
对不起,我的英语不好,尽管我不是一个新技术,我不是广为人知,我是一个孩子。很有希望。来,看看我的资料!
人们似乎忘记了还有另一个方向。
为什么你一开始要用汇编语言写东西?为什么不用一种真正低级的语言来编写程序呢?
而不是
mov eax, 0x123
add eax, 0x456
push eax
call printInt
你还是写吧
B823010000
0556040000
50
FF15.....
这有很多好处,你知道你的程序的确切大小,你可以重用指令的值作为其他指令的输入,你甚至不需要汇编程序来编写它,你可以使用任何文本编辑器……
你仍然喜欢汇编程序的原因,是其他人喜欢C语言的原因。