尽管我很喜欢C和c++,但我还是忍不住对空结尾字符串的选择抓耳挠脑:
Length prefixed (i.e. Pascal) strings existed before C
Length prefixed strings make several algorithms faster by allowing constant time length lookup.
Length prefixed strings make it more difficult to cause buffer overrun errors.
Even on a 32 bit machine, if you allow the string to be the size of available memory, a length prefixed string is only three bytes wider than a null terminated string. On 16 bit machines this is a single byte. On 64 bit machines, 4GB is a reasonable string length limit, but even if you want to expand it to the size of the machine word, 64 bit machines usually have ample memory making the extra seven bytes sort of a null argument. I know the original C standard was written for insanely poor machines (in terms of memory), but the efficiency argument doesn't sell me here.
Pretty much every other language (i.e. Perl, Pascal, Python, Java, C#, etc) use length prefixed strings. These languages usually beat C in string manipulation benchmarks because they are more efficient with strings.
C++ rectified this a bit with the std::basic_string template, but plain character arrays expecting null terminated strings are still pervasive. This is also imperfect because it requires heap allocation.
Null terminated strings have to reserve a character (namely, null), which cannot exist in the string, while length prefixed strings can contain embedded nulls.
其中一些东西比C语言出现得更晚,所以C语言不知道它们是有道理的。然而,在C语言出现之前,有些语言就已经很简单了。为什么会选择空终止字符串,而不是明显更好的长度前缀?
编辑:因为有些人问了关于我上面提到的效率点的事实(他们不喜欢我已经提供的事实),他们源于以下几点:
使用空结尾字符串的Concat需要O(n + m)时间复杂度。长度前缀通常只需要O(m)。
使用空结尾字符串的长度需要O(n)时间复杂度。长度前缀为O(1)。
Length和concat是迄今为止最常见的字符串操作。在一些情况下,以空结尾的字符串可能更有效,但这种情况发生的频率要低得多。
从下面的答案,这些是一些情况下,空终止字符串更有效:
When you need to cut off the start of a string and need to pass it to some method. You can't really do this in constant time with length prefixing even if you are allowed to destroy the original string, because the length prefix probably needs to follow alignment rules.
In some cases where you're just looping through the string character by character you might be able to save a CPU register. Note that this works only in the case that you haven't dynamically allocated the string (Because then you'd have to free it, necessitating using that CPU register you saved to hold the pointer you originally got from malloc and friends).
上面这些词都没有length和concat常见。
下面的答案中还有一个断言:
你需要把绳子的一端剪掉
但这个是不正确的——对于以null结尾的字符串和有长度前缀的字符串,它的时间是相同的。(以Null结尾的字符串只是在你想要的新结尾的地方插入一个Null,长度前缀只是从前缀中减去。)
这个问题是作为长度前缀字符串(LPS)与零终止字符串(SZ)的问题提出的,但主要暴露了长度前缀字符串的好处。这似乎有些势不可挡,但老实说,我们也应该考虑到LPS的缺点和SZ的优点。
在我看来,这个问题甚至可以被理解为一种带有偏见的提问方式:“零终止字符串的优势是什么?”
零终止字符串的优点(我看到了):
very simple, no need to introduce new concepts in language, char
arrays/char pointers can do.
the core language just include minimal syntaxic sugar to convert
something between double quotes to a
bunch of chars (really a bunch of
bytes). In some cases it can be used
to initialize things completely
unrelated with text. For instance xpm
image file format is a valid C source
that contains image data encoded as a
string.
by the way, you can put a zero in a string literal, the compiler will
just also add another one at the end of the literal: "this\0is\0valid\0C".
Is it a string ? or four strings ? Or a bunch of bytes...
flat implementation, no hidden indirection, no hidden integer.
no hidden memory allocation involved (well, some infamous non
standard functions like strdup
perform allocation, but that's mostly
a source of problem).
no specific issue for small or large hardware (imagine the burden to
manage 32 bits prefix length on 8
bits microcontrollers, or the
restrictions of limiting string size
to less than 256 bytes, that was a problem I actually had with Turbo Pascal eons ago).
implementation of string manipulation is just a handful of
very simple library function
efficient for the main use of strings : constant text read
sequentially from a known start
(mostly messages to the user).
the terminating zero is not even mandatory, all necessary tools
to manipulate chars like a bunch of
bytes are available. When performing
array initialisation in C, you can
even avoid the NUL terminator. Just
set the right size. char a[3] =
"foo"; is valid C (not C++) and
won't put a final zero in a.
coherent with the unix point of view "everything is file", including
"files" that have no intrinsic length
like stdin, stdout. You should remember that open read and write primitives are implemented
at a very low level. They are not library calls, but system calls. And the same API is used
for binary or text files. File reading primitives get a buffer address and a size and return
the new size. And you can use strings as the buffer to write. Using another kind of string
representation would imply you can't easily use a literal string as the buffer to output, or
you would have to make it have a very strange behavior when casting it to char*. Namely
not to return the address of the string, but instead to return the actual data.
very easy to manipulate text data read from a file in-place, without useless copy of buffer,
just insert zeroes at the right places (well, not really with modern C as double quoted strings are const char arrays nowaday usually kept in non modifiable data segment).
prepending some int values of whatever size would implies alignment issues. The initial
length should be aligned, but there is no reason to do that for the characters datas (and
again, forcing alignment of strings would imply problems when treating them as a bunch of
bytes).
length is known at compile time for constant literal strings (sizeof). So why would
anyone want to store it in memory prepending it to actual data ?
in a way C is doing as (nearly) everyone else, strings are viewed as arrays of char. As array length is not managed by C, it is logical length is not managed either for strings. The only surprising thing is that 0 item added at the end, but that's just at core language level when typing a string between double quotes. Users can perfectly call string manipulation functions passing length, or even use plain memcopy instead. SZ are just a facility. In most other languages array length is managed, it's logical that is the same for strings.
in modern times anyway 1 byte character sets are not enough and you often have to deal with encoded unicode strings where the number of characters is very different of the number of bytes. It implies that users will probably want more than "just the size", but also other informations. Keeping length give use nothing (particularly no natural place to store them) regarding these other useful pieces of information.
也就是说,在标准C字符串确实效率低下的罕见情况下,没有必要抱怨。图书馆是可用的。如果我遵循这个趋势,我应该抱怨标准C不包括任何正则表达式支持函数……但实际上每个人都知道这不是一个真正的问题,因为有库可以用于此目的。因此,当字符串操作效率是需要的,为什么不使用像bstring库?或者甚至是c++字符串?
编辑:我最近看了看D弦。有趣的是,所选择的解决方案既不是大小前缀,也不是零终止。与C语言一样,双引号括起来的字面值字符串只是不可变字符数组的简写,并且该语言也有一个字符串关键字表示(不可变字符数组)。
但是D数组比C数组丰富得多。在静态数组的情况下,长度在运行时是已知的,因此不需要存储长度。编译器在编译时拥有它。在动态数组的情况下,长度是可用的,但D文档没有说明它保存在哪里。就我们所知,编译器可以选择将它保存在某个寄存器中,或者存储在远离字符数据的某个变量中。
正常char数组或非字符串没有最终为零,因此程序员必须把它本身如果他想叫一些C函数从D .字符串字面量的具体情况,然而D编译器仍然把零在每个字符串(允许容易把C字符串容易调用C函数?),但这零不是字符串的一部分(D不计算字符串大小)。
The only thing that disappointed me somewhat is that strings are supposed to be utf-8, but length apparently still returns a number of bytes (at least it's true on my compiler gdc) even when using multi-byte chars. It is unclear to me if it's a compiler bug or by purpose. (OK, I probably have found out what happened. To say to D compiler your source use utf-8 you have to put some stupid byte order mark at beginning. I write stupid because I know of not editor doing that, especially for UTF-8 that is supposed to be ASCII compatible).
懒惰、寄存器节俭和可移植性考虑到任何语言的汇编核心,尤其是C语言,它比汇编高出一步(因此继承了大量汇编遗留代码)。
你会同意null字符在那些ASCII的日子里是无用的,它(可能和EOF控件字符一样好)。
让我们看看伪代码
function readString(string) // 1 parameter: 1 register or 1 stact entries
pointer=addressOf(string)
while(string[pointer]!=CONTROL_CHAR) do
read(string[pointer])
increment pointer
共使用1个寄存器
案例2
function readString(length,string) // 2 parameters: 2 register used or 2 stack entries
pointer=addressOf(string)
while(length>0) do
read(string[pointer])
increment pointer
decrement length
共使用2个寄存器
这在当时似乎是短视的,但考虑到代码和寄存器的节俭(这在当时是PREMIUM,那时你知道,他们使用穿孔卡)。因此,更快(当处理器速度可以以kHz计),这个“黑客”是相当不错的,可轻松移植到无寄存器处理器。
为了便于讨论,我将实现2个常见的字符串操作
stringLength(string)
pointer=addressOf(string)
while(string[pointer]!=CONTROL_CHAR) do
increment pointer
return pointer-addressOf(string)
复杂度O(n),在大多数情况下PASCAL字符串是O(1),因为字符串的长度是预先挂起的字符串结构(这也意味着该操作必须在更早的阶段进行)。
concatString(string1,string2)
length1=stringLength(string1)
length2=stringLength(string2)
string3=allocate(string1+string2)
pointer1=addressOf(string1)
pointer3=addressOf(string3)
while(string1[pointer1]!=CONTROL_CHAR) do
string3[pointer3]=string1[pointer1]
increment pointer3
increment pointer1
pointer2=addressOf(string2)
while(string2[pointer2]!=CONTROL_CHAR) do
string3[pointer3]=string2[pointer2]
increment pointer3
increment pointer1
return string3
复杂度O(n)和预先设置字符串长度不会改变操作的复杂性,而我承认它会减少3倍的时间。
另一方面,如果你使用PASCAL字符串将不得不重新设计您的API来考虑在长度和bit-endianness注册,帕斯卡字符串的众所周知的限制255字符(0 xff)因为中存储的长度是1个字节(8位),而且你想要更长的字符串(16位- >任何)你必须考虑在一层的架构代码,这意味着在大多数情况下不相容的字符串API如果你想要更长的字符串。
例子:
One file was written with your prepended string api on an 8 bit computer and then would have to be read on say a 32 bit computer, what would the lazy program do considers that your 4bytes are the length of the string then allocate that lot of memory then attempt to read that many bytes.
Another case would be PPC 32 byte string read(little endian) onto a x86 (big endian), of course if you don't know that one is written by the other there would be trouble.
1 byte length (0x00000001) would become 16777216 (0x0100000) that is 16 MB for reading a 1 byte string.
Of course you would say that people should agree on one standard but even 16bit unicode got little and big endianness.
当然,C也有它的问题,但它不会受到这里提出的问题的影响。
不知怎的,我把这个问题理解为C中没有编译器支持以长度为前缀的字符串。下面的例子显示,至少你可以开始你自己的C字符串库,其中字符串长度在编译时计算,使用这样的构造:
#define PREFIX_STR(s) ((prefix_str_t){ sizeof(s)-1, (s) })
typedef struct { int n; char * p; } prefix_str_t;
int main() {
prefix_str_t string1, string2;
string1 = PREFIX_STR("Hello!");
string2 = PREFIX_STR("Allows \0 chars (even if printf directly doesn't)");
printf("%d %s\n", string1.n, string1.p); /* prints: "6 Hello!" */
printf("%d %s\n", string2.n, string2.p); /* prints: "48 Allows " */
return 0;
}
然而,这不会带来任何问题,因为你需要小心什么时候特别释放字符串指针,什么时候它是静态分配的(字面字符数组)。
编辑:作为对这个问题更直接的回答,我的观点是,这是C既可以支持可用的字符串长度(作为编译时间常数)的方式,如果你需要它,但如果你只想使用指针和零终止,仍然没有内存开销。
当然,使用以零结尾的字符串似乎是推荐的做法,因为标准库一般不接受字符串长度作为参数,而且提取长度的代码不像char * s = "abc"那样简单,正如我的示例所示。
Calavera是对的,但由于人们似乎没有理解他的观点,我将提供一些代码示例。
首先,让我们考虑一下C是什么:一种简单的语言,其中所有代码都可以直接转换为机器语言。所有类型都适合寄存器和堆栈,并且它不需要一个操作系统或一个大的运行时库来运行,因为它是用来编写这些东西的(考虑到今天甚至没有一个可能的竞争对手,这个任务非常适合)。
如果C语言有一个字符串类型,比如int或char,它将是一种不适合寄存器或堆栈的类型,并且需要以任何方式处理内存分配(及其所有支持的基础设施)。所有这些都违背了C语言的基本原则。
因此,C语言中的字符串是:
char s*;
那么,我们假设这是有长度前缀的。让我们编写代码来连接两个字符串:
char* concat(char* s1, char* s2)
{
/* What? What is the type of the length of the string? */
int l1 = *(int*) s1;
/* How much? How much must I skip? */
char *s1s = s1 + sizeof(int);
int l2 = *(int*) s2;
char *s2s = s2 + sizeof(int);
int l3 = l1 + l2;
char *s3 = (char*) malloc(l3 + sizeof(int));
char *s3s = s3 + sizeof(int);
memcpy(s3s, s1s, l1);
memcpy(s3s + l1, s2s, l2);
*(int*) s3 = l3;
return s3;
}
另一种方法是使用struct来定义字符串:
struct {
int len; /* cannot be left implementation-defined */
char* buf;
}
此时,所有的字符串操作都需要进行两次分配,这实际上意味着您将通过一个库来进行任何处理。
有趣的是……这样的结构体在C中确实存在!它们只是不用于日常显示消息给用户处理。
所以,这就是Calavera的观点:在c语言中没有字符串类型,要对它做任何事情,你必须获取一个指针,并将其解码为指向两个不同类型的指针,然后字符串的大小就变得非常相关,而不能仅仅是“实现定义”。
现在,C可以以任何方式处理内存,并且库中的mem函数(甚至在<string.h>中!)提供了将内存作为一对指针和大小来处理所需的所有工具。C语言中所谓的“字符串”的创建只有一个目的:在为文本终端编写操作系统的上下文中显示消息。因此,空终止就足够了。
围绕C语言的许多设计决策都源于这样一个事实:在最初实现C语言时,参数传递的代价有些昂贵。如果在两者之间作选择。
void add_element_to_next(arr, offset)
char[] arr;
int offset;
{
arr[offset] += arr[offset+1];
}
char array[40];
void test()
{
for (i=0; i<39; i++)
add_element_to_next(array, i);
}
与
void add_element_to_next(ptr)
char *p;
{
p[0]+=p[1];
}
char array[40];
void test()
{
int i;
for (i=0; i<39; i++)
add_element_to_next(arr+i);
}
后者会稍微便宜一点(因此是首选),因为它只需要传递一个参数而不是两个。如果被调用的方法不需要知道数组的基址,也不需要知道其中的索引,那么将这两个值组合在一起传递一个指针比分别传递值要便宜。
While there are many reasonable ways in which C could have encoded string lengths, the approaches that had been invented up to that time would have all required functions that should be able to work with part of a string to accept the base address of the string and the desired index as two separate parameters. Using zero-byte termination made it possible to avoid that requirement. Although other approaches would be better with today's machines (modern compilers often pass parameters in registers, and memcpy can be optimized in ways strcpy()-equivalents cannot) enough production code uses zero-byte terminated strings that it's hard to change to anything else.
PS——为了在某些操作上稍微降低速度,以及在较长的字符串上稍微增加一点额外开销,可以让处理字符串的方法直接接受指向字符串的指针、经过边界检查的字符串缓冲区或标识另一个字符串的子字符串的数据结构。像“strcat”这样的函数看起来像[现代语法]
void strcat(unsigned char *dest, unsigned char *src)
{
struct STRING_INFO d,s;
str_size_t copy_length;
get_string_info(&d, dest);
get_string_info(&s, src);
if (d.si_buff_size > d.si_length) // Destination is resizable buffer
{
copy_length = d.si_buff_size - d.si_length;
if (s.src_length < copy_length)
copy_length = s.src_length;
memcpy(d.buff + d.si_length, s.buff, copy_length);
d.si_length += copy_length;
update_string_length(&d);
}
}
比K&R strcat方法大一点,但它支持边界检查,而K&R方法不支持。此外,与当前的方法不同,它可以轻松地连接任意子字符串,例如。
/* Concatenate 10th through 24th characters from src to dest */
void catpart(unsigned char *dest, unsigned char *src)
{
struct SUBSTRING_INFO *inf;
src = temp_substring(&inf, src, 10, 24);
strcat(dest, src);
}
注意,由temp_substring返回的字符串的生命周期将受到s和src的生命周期的限制,后者更短(这就是为什么该方法需要传入inf——如果它是本地的,它将在方法返回时死亡)。
In terms of memory cost, strings and buffers up to 64 bytes would have one byte of overhead (same as zero-terminated strings); longer strings would have slightly more (whether one allowed amounts of overhead between two bytes and the maximum required would be a time/space tradeoff). A special value of the length/mode byte would be used to indicate that a string function was given a structure containing a flag byte, a pointer, and a buffer length (which could then index arbitrarily into any other string).
当然,K&R并没有实现任何这样的东西,但这很可能是因为他们不想在字符串处理上花费太多精力——即使在今天,许多语言在这方面似乎都相当薄弱。
不一定是基本原理,而是长度编码的对应物
Certain forms of dynamic length encoding are superior to static length encoding as far as memory is concerned, it all depends on usage. Just look at UTF-8 for proof. It's essentially an extensible character array for encoding a single character. This uses a single bit for each extended byte. NUL termination uses 8 bits. Length-prefix I think can be reasonably termed infinite length as well by using 64 bits. How often you hit the case of your extra bits is the deciding factor. Only 1 extremely large string? Who cares if you're using 8 or 64 bits? Many small strings (Ie Strings of English words)? Then your prefix costs are a large percentage.
Length-prefixed strings allowing time savings is not a real thing. Whether your supplied data is required to have length provided, you're counting at compile time, or you're truly being provided dynamic data that you must encode as a string. These sizes are computed at some point in the algorithm. A separate variable to store the size of a null terminated string can be provided. Which makes the comparison on time-savings moot. One just has an extra NUL at the end... but if the length encode doesn't include that NUL then there's literally no difference between the two. There's no algorithmic change required at all. Just a pre-pass you have to manually design yourself instead of having a compiler/runtime do it for you. C is mostly about doing things manually.
Length-prefix being optional is a selling point. I don't always need that extra info for an algorithm so being required to do it for a every string makes my precompute+compute time never able to drop below O(n). (Ie hardware random number generator 1-128. I can pull from an "infinite string". Let's say it only generates characters so fast. So our string length changes all the time. But my usage of the data probably doesn't care how many random bytes I have. It just wants the next available unused byte as soon as it can get it after a request. I could be waiting on the device. But I could also have a buffer of characters pre-read. A length comparison is a needless waste of computation. A null check is more efficient.)
Length-prefix is a good guard against buffer overflow? So is sane usage of library functions and implementation. What if I pass in malformed data? My buffer is 2 bytes long but I tell the function it's 7! Ex: If gets() was intended to be used on known data it could've had an internal buffer check that tested compiled buffers and malloc() calls and still follow spec. If it was meant to be used as a pipe for unknown STDIN to arrive at unknown buffer then clearly one can't know abut the buffer size which means a length arg is pointless, you need something else here like a canary check. For that matter, you can't length-prefix some streams and inputs, you just can't. Which means the length check has to be built into the algorithm and not a magic part of the typing system. TL;DR NUL-terminated never had to be unsafe, it just ended up that way via misuse.
counter-counter point: NUL-termination is annoying on binary. You either need to do length-prefix here or transform NUL bytes in some way: escape-codes, range remapping, etc... which of course means more-memory-usage/reduced-information/more-operations-per-byte. Length-prefix mostly wins the war here. The only upside to a transform is that no additional functions have to be written to cover the length-prefix strings. Which means on your more optimized sub-O(n) routines you can have them automatically act as their O(n) equivalents without adding more code. Downside is, of course, time/memory/compression waste when used on NUL heavy strings. Depending on how much of your library you end up duplicating to operate on binary data, it may make sense to work solely with length-prefix strings. That said one could also do the same with length-prefix strings... -1 length could mean NUL-terminated and you could use NUL-terminated strings inside length-terminated.
Concat: "O(n+m) vs O(m)" I'm assuming your referring to m as the total length of the string after concatenating because they both have to have that number of operations minimum (you can't just tack-on to string 1, what if you have to realloc?). And I'm assuming n is a mythical amount of operations you no longer have to do because of a pre-compute. If so, then the answer is simple: pre-compute. If you're insisting you'll always have enough memory to not need to realloc and that's the basis of the big-O notation then the answer is even more simple: do binary search on allocated memory for end of string 1, clearly there's a large swatch of infinite zeros after string 1 for us to not worry about realloc. There, easily got n to log(n) and I barely tried. Which if you recall log(n) is essentially only ever as large as 64 on a real computer, which is essentially like saying O(64+m), which is essentially O(m). (And yes that logic has been used in run-time analysis of real data structures in-use today. It's not bullshit off the top of my head.)
Concat()/Len() again: Memoize results. Easy. Turns all computes into pre-computes if possible/necessary. This is an algorithmic decision. It's not an enforced constraint of the language.
String suffix passing is easier/possible with NUL termination. Depending on how length-prefix is implemented it can be destructive on original string and can sometimes not even be possible. Requiring a copy and pass O(n) instead of O(1).
Argument-passing/de-referencing is less for NUL-terminated versus length-prefix. Obviously because you're passing less information. If you don't need length, then this saves a lot of footprint and allows optimizations.
You can cheat. It's really just a pointer. Who says you have to read it as a string? What if you want to read it as a single character or a float? What if you want to do the opposite and read a float as a string? If you're careful you can do this with NUL-termination. You can't do this with length-prefix, it's a data type distinctly different from a pointer typically. You'd most likely have to build a string byte-by-byte and get the length. Of course if you wanted something like an entire float (probably has a NUL inside it) you'd have to read byte-by-byte anyway, but the details are left to you to decide.
TL;DR您使用二进制数据吗?如果不是,那么null终止允许更多的算法自由。如果是,那么代码数量vs速度/内存/压缩是你的主要关注点。两种方法的混合或记忆可能是最好的。
与长度前缀相比,null终止的一个优点是字符串比较的简单性,这一点我没有看到任何人提到过。考虑比较标准,它返回小于、等于或大于的有符号结果。对于长度前缀,算法必须遵循以下几行:
Compare the two lengths; record the smaller, and note if they are equal (this last step might be deferred to step 3).
Scan the two character sequences, subtracting characters at matching indices (or use a dual pointer scan). Stop either when the difference is nonzero, returning the difference, or when the number of characters scanned is equal to the smaller length.
When the smaller length is reached, one string is a prefix of the other. Return negative or positive value according to which is shorter, or zero if of equal length.
将其与null终止算法进行对比:
扫描两个字符序列,在匹配的索引处减去字符[注意,移动指针处理得更好]。当差值非零时停止,返回差值。注意:如果一个字符串是另一个字符串的PROPER前缀,减法中的一个字符将为NUL,即零,比较将自然地停止在那里。
如果差值为零,-only then-检查是否有字符为NUL。如果是,则返回0,否则继续到下一个字符。
以null结尾的情况更简单,并且非常容易用双指针扫描高效地实现。带长度前缀的大小写至少做同样多的工作,几乎总是更多。如果你的算法必须做大量的字符串比较[e。编译器!],以null结尾的情况胜出。现在,这可能不那么重要了,但在过去,是的。
我觉得更好的问题是你为什么觉得C欠你什么?C语言的设计是为了满足你的需要,仅此而已。你需要摆脱那种认为语言必须为你提供一切的心态。或者只是继续使用你的高级语言,这将给你奢侈的字符串,日历,容器;而在Java中,你会得到一种千变万化的东西。多个类型字符串,多个类型的unordered_map(s)。
这对你来说太糟糕了,这不是C的目的。C并不是被设计成一种从大头针到锚的臃肿语言。相反,您必须依赖第三方库或您自己的库。没有什么比创建一个包含字符串及其大小的简单结构体更容易的了。
struct String
{
const char *s;
size_t len;
};
你知道问题出在哪里。它不标准。另一种语言可能决定将len组织在字符串之前。另一种语言可能决定使用指针来代替结束。另一个人可能决定使用六个指针来提高String的效率。然而,null结尾的字符串是字符串的最标准格式;你可以用它来与任何语言进行交互。甚至Java JNI也使用以空结尾的字符串。
Lastly, it is a common saying; the right data structure for the task. If you find that need to know the size of a string more than anything else; well use a string structure that allows you to do that optimally. But don't make claims that that operation is used more than anything else for everybody. Like, why is knowing the size of a string more important than reading its contents. I find that reading the contents of a string is what I mostly do, so I use null terminated strings instead of std::string; which saves me 5 pointers on a GCC compiler. If I can even save 2 pointers that is good.