I've accepted an answer, but sadly, I believe we're stuck with our original worst case scenario: CAPTCHA everyone on purchase attempts of the crap. Short explanation: caching / web farms make it impossible to track hits, and any workaround (sending a non-cached web-beacon, writing to a unified table, etc.) slows the site down worse than the bots would. There is likely some pricey hardware from Cisco or the like that can help at a high level, but it's hard to justify the cost if CAPTCHA-ing everyone is an alternative. I'll attempt a more full explanation later, as well as cleaning this up for future searchers (though others are welcome to try, as it's community wiki).

情况

这是关于woot.com上的垃圾销售。我是Woot Workshop的总统,Woot Workshop是Woot的子公司,负责设计,撰写产品描述,播客,博客文章,并主持论坛。我使用CSS/HTML,对其他技术几乎不熟悉。我与开发人员密切合作,在这里讨论了所有的答案(以及我们的许多其他想法)。

可用性是我工作的重要组成部分,而让网站变得令人兴奋和有趣则是剩下的大部分工作。这就是下面三个目标的来源。验证码损害了可用性,机器人从我们的垃圾销售中偷走了乐趣和兴奋。

机器人一秒钟就会在我们的首页上猛击数十次屏幕抓取(和/或扫描我们的RSS),以寻找随机垃圾销售。他们一看到这个,就会触发程序的第二阶段登录,点击“我要一个”,填好表格,然后买下这些垃圾。

评价

lc:在stackoverflow和其他使用此方法的站点上,他们几乎总是处理已验证(登录)的用户,因为正在尝试的任务需要这样。

在Woot上,匿名(未登录)用户可以查看我们的主页。换句话说,撞击机器人可以不经过身份验证(除了IP地址之外基本上无法跟踪)。

所以我们又回到了扫描IP, a)在这个云网络和垃圾邮件僵尸的时代是相当无用的,b)考虑到来自一个IP地址的业务数量,捕获了太多无辜的人(更不用说非静态IP isp的问题和试图跟踪它的潜在性能影响)。

还有,让别人给我们打电话是最糟糕的情况。我们能让他们给你打电话吗?

布拉德克:内德·巴切德的方法看起来很酷,但它们是专门设计来击败为网络站点构建的机器人的。我们的问题是机器人是专门用来破坏我们网站的。其中一些方法可能只在很短的时间内有效,直到脚本编写人员将他们的机器人进化为忽略蜜罐,从屏幕上抓取附近的标签名称而不是表单id,并使用支持javascript的浏览器控件。

 

lc再次说道:“当然,除非炒作是你们营销计划的一部分。”是的,绝对是。当物品出现时的惊喜,以及当你设法得到一件物品时的兴奋,可能比你实际得到的垃圾一样重要,甚至更重要。任何消除先到/先得的东西都不利于“赢”的快感。

 

novatrust:就我个人而言,欢迎我们新的机器人霸主。我们实际上提供RSSfeeds,允许第三方应用程序扫描我们的网站的产品信息,但不是在主站HTML之前。如果我的理解正确的话,你的解决方案通过完全牺牲目标1来帮助目标2(性能问题),并放弃机器人将购买大部分垃圾的事实。我给你的回答投了赞成票,因为你最后一段的悲观情绪对我来说是准确的。这里似乎没有什么灵丹妙药。

其余的响应通常依赖于IP跟踪,这似乎是无用的(僵尸网络/僵尸/云网络)和有害的(捕获许多来自相同IP目的地的无辜的人)。

还有其他方法/想法吗?我的开发人员一直在说“让我们只做验证码”,但我希望有更少的侵入性方法,让所有真正想要我们的垃圾的人。

最初的问题

假设你卖的东西很便宜,但有很高的感知价值,而你的数量非常有限。没有人确切地知道你什么时候会卖这个东西。超过一百万人经常来看你卖什么。

你最终会发现脚本和机器人试图通过编程方式[a]找出你何时出售该道具,[b]确保他们是第一批购买该道具的人。这很糟糕,有两个原因:

你的网站被非人类攻击,拖慢了所有人的速度。 编剧最终“赢得”了产品,让常客感到被骗了。

一个看似显而易见的解决方案是为用户在下单前设置一些障碍,但这至少有三个问题:

The user experience sucks for humans, as they have to decipher CAPTCHA, pick out the cat, or solve a math problem. If the perceived benefit is high enough, and the crowd large enough, some group will find their way around any tweak, leading to an arms race. (This is especially true the simpler the tweak is; hidden 'comments' form, re-arranging the form elements, mis-labeling them, hidden 'gotcha' text all will work once and then need to be changed to fight targeting this specific form.) Even if the scripters can't 'solve' your tweak it doesn't prevent them from slamming your front page, and then sounding an alarm for the scripter to fill out the order, manually. Given they get the advantage from solving [a], they will likely still win [b] since they'll be the first humans reaching the order page. Additionally, 1. still happens, causing server errors and a decreased performance for everyone.

另一种解决方案是经常监视ip攻击,阻止它们进入防火墙,或以其他方式阻止它们排序。这个可以解2。和阻止[b],但扫描ip对性能的影响是巨大的,可能会导致更多像1这样的问题。比编剧自己造成的还要严重。此外,云网络和垃圾邮件僵尸的可能性使得IP检查相当无用。

第三个想法,强迫订单表单加载一段时间(比如半秒),可能会减慢快速订单的进度,但同样,脚本编写人员仍然是第一个进入的人,在任何速度下都不会对实际用户造成损害。

目标

将道具卖给非脚本人。 保持网站运行的速度不被机器人减慢。 不要让“正常”用户完成任何任务来证明他们是人类。


当前回答

可能没有一个神奇的银弹来照顾机器人,但这些建议的组合可能有助于阻止他们,并将他们减少到一个更易于管理的数量。 如果您需要对这些建议进行任何澄清,请告诉我:

Any images that depict the item should be either always the same image name (such as "current_item.jpg") or should be a random name that changes for each request. The server should know what the current item is and will deliver the appropriate image. This image should also have a random amount of padding to reduce bots comparing image sizes. (Possibly changing a watermark of some sort to deter more sophisticated bots). Remove the ALT text from these images. This text is usually redundant information that can be found elsewhere on the pages, or make them generic alt text (such as "Current item image would be here"). The description could change each time a Bag of Crap comes up. It could rotate (randomly) between a number of different names: "Random Crap", "BoC", "Crappy Crap", etc... Woot could also offer more items at the "Random Crap" price, or have the price be a random amount between $0.95 and $1.05 (only change price once for each time the Crap comes up, not for each user, for fairness) The Price, Description, and other areas that differentiate a BoC from other Woots could be images instead of text. These fields could also be Java (not javaScript) or Flash. While dependent on a third-party plug-in, it would make it more difficult for the bots to scrape your site in a useful manner. Using a combination of Images, Java, Flash, and maybe other technologies would be another way to make it more difficult for the bots. This would be a little more difficult to manage, as administrators would have to know many different platforms. There are other ways to obfuscate this information. Using a combination of client-side scripting (javascript, etc) and server-side obfuscation (random image names) would be the most likely way to do it without affecting the user experience. Adding some obfuscating Java and/or Flash, or similar would make it more difficult, while possibly minimally impacting some users. Combine some of these tactics with some that were mentioned above: if a page is reloaded more than x times per minute, then change the image name (if you had a static image name suggested above), or give them a two minute old cached page. There are some very sophisticated things you could do on the back end with user behavior tracking that might not take too much processing. You could off-load that work to a dedicated server to minimize the performance impact. Take some data from the request and send it to a dedicated server that can process that data. If it finds a suspected bot, based on its behavior, it can send a hook to another server (front end routing firewall, server, router, etc OR back-end web or content server) to add some additional security to these users. maybe add Java applets for these users, or require additional information from the user (do not pre-fill all fields in the order page, making a different field empty each time randomly, etc).

其他回答

以下是我的做法:

Require all bidders for bag of crap sales to register with the site. When you want to start a sale, post "BOC sale starting soon, check your email to see if you are eligible" on your main page. Send out invitations to a random selection of the registered players, with a url unique to that particular sale when sale starts. Ensure the URL used is different for each sales event. Tweak the random selection invitation algorithm to pull down elibiblity for frequent winners, based upon Credit Card used for purchase, paypal account, or shipping address.

这可以阻止机器人,因为你的主页只显示未决的BOC事件。机器人在没有收到邮件的情况下无法访问URL,也不能保证他们会收到。

如果你担心销售影响,你也可以通过为每笔销售赠送一到两个BOC来激励参与者。如果你在给定的时间间隔内没有看到足够的宣传,你会自动邮寄额外的注册用户,增加每个宣传的参与者池。

中提琴。公平的竞争环境,没有大量的启发式和网络流量分析。系统仍然可以通过设置大量电子邮件帐户的人来游戏,但通过CC#, paypal帐户,送货地址来调整参与者选择标准可以缓解这一点。

我将要描述的方法有两个要求。1) Javascript被强制执行2)一个具有有效http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb894287.aspx浏览器会话的web浏览器。

如果没有其中任何一个,你就是“故意”倒霉的。互联网被设计成允许匿名客户查看内容。简单的HTML没有办法解决这个问题。哦,我只是想说,简单的,基于图像的验证码很容易被击败,甚至作者也承认这一点。

Moving along to the problem and the solution. The problem is in two parts. The first is that you cannot block out an individual for "doing bad things". To fix this you setup a method that takes in the browsers valid session and generate a md5sum + salt + hash (of your own private device) and send it back to the browser. The browser then is REQUIRED to return that hashed key back during every post / get. If you do not ever get a valid browser session, then you reply back with "Please use a valid web browser blah blah blah". All popular browsers have valid browser session id's.

现在我们至少有了该浏览器会话的标识(我知道它不会永久锁定,但是通过简单的脚本很难“更新”一个浏览器会话),我们可以有效地锁定一个会话(例如;让脚本编写人员很难访问你的网站,而不会对有效用户造成任何惩罚)。

Now this next part is why it requires javascript. On the client you build a simple hash for each character that comes from the keyboard versus the value of the text in the textarea. That valid key comes over to the server as a simple hash and has to be validated. While this method could easily be reverse engineered, it does make it one extra hoop that individuals have to go through before they can submit data. Mind you this only prevents auto posting of data, not DOS with constant visits to the web site. If you even have access to ajax there is a way to send a salt and hash key across the wire and use javascript with it to build the onkeypress characters "valid token" that gets sent across the wire. Yes like I said it could easily be reversed engineered, but you see where I am going with this hopefully.

现在为了防止不断的交通滥用。有几种方法可以在给定有效的会话id后建立模式。这些模式(即使使用Random来抵消请求时间)的epsilon比人类试图重现相同的误差范围时要低。由于您有一个会话ID,并且您有一个“看起来像一个bot”的模式,那么您可以用一个简单的轻量级响应屏蔽该会话,该响应是20字节而不是200000字节。

You see here, the goal is to 1) make the anonymous non-anonymous (even if it's only per session) and 2) develop a method to identify bots vs. normal people by establishing patterns in the way they use your system. You can't say that the latter is impossible, because I have done it before. While, my implementations were for tracking video game bots I would seem to think that those algorithms for identifying a bot vs. a user can be generalized to the form of web site visits. If you reduce the traffic that the bots consume you reduce the load on your system. Mind you this still does not prevent DOS attacks, but it does reduce the amount of strain a bot produces on the system.

把RSA密钥卖给每个用户怎么样:)嘿,如果他们能在《魔兽世界》中做到这一点,你们应该也能做到。

我希望我的答案是BoC;)

如上所述,我在非验证码表单上做了一些工作,方法是使用存储在表单中的结果的预期值的预计算散列。这个想法适用于Wordpress的两个反垃圾邮件插件:WP-Morph和WP-HashCash。唯一的缺点是客户端浏览器必须能够解释JavaScript。

我不明白为什么IP地址过滤必须是非常昂贵的。使用IIS,您可以构建一个ISAPI过滤器来在本机代码中执行此操作。我相信apache也有类似的接口。使用客户端的IP地址,您可以为HTTP请求编写一个简单的速率限制器,它不依赖于禁止列表或其他类似的废话。