I've accepted an answer, but sadly, I believe we're stuck with our original worst case scenario: CAPTCHA everyone on purchase attempts of the crap. Short explanation: caching / web farms make it impossible to track hits, and any workaround (sending a non-cached web-beacon, writing to a unified table, etc.) slows the site down worse than the bots would. There is likely some pricey hardware from Cisco or the like that can help at a high level, but it's hard to justify the cost if CAPTCHA-ing everyone is an alternative. I'll attempt a more full explanation later, as well as cleaning this up for future searchers (though others are welcome to try, as it's community wiki).

情况

这是关于woot.com上的垃圾销售。我是Woot Workshop的总统,Woot Workshop是Woot的子公司,负责设计,撰写产品描述,播客,博客文章,并主持论坛。我使用CSS/HTML,对其他技术几乎不熟悉。我与开发人员密切合作,在这里讨论了所有的答案(以及我们的许多其他想法)。

可用性是我工作的重要组成部分,而让网站变得令人兴奋和有趣则是剩下的大部分工作。这就是下面三个目标的来源。验证码损害了可用性,机器人从我们的垃圾销售中偷走了乐趣和兴奋。

机器人一秒钟就会在我们的首页上猛击数十次屏幕抓取(和/或扫描我们的RSS),以寻找随机垃圾销售。他们一看到这个,就会触发程序的第二阶段登录,点击“我要一个”,填好表格,然后买下这些垃圾。

评价

lc:在stackoverflow和其他使用此方法的站点上,他们几乎总是处理已验证(登录)的用户,因为正在尝试的任务需要这样。

在Woot上,匿名(未登录)用户可以查看我们的主页。换句话说,撞击机器人可以不经过身份验证(除了IP地址之外基本上无法跟踪)。

所以我们又回到了扫描IP, a)在这个云网络和垃圾邮件僵尸的时代是相当无用的,b)考虑到来自一个IP地址的业务数量,捕获了太多无辜的人(更不用说非静态IP isp的问题和试图跟踪它的潜在性能影响)。

还有,让别人给我们打电话是最糟糕的情况。我们能让他们给你打电话吗?

布拉德克:内德·巴切德的方法看起来很酷,但它们是专门设计来击败为网络站点构建的机器人的。我们的问题是机器人是专门用来破坏我们网站的。其中一些方法可能只在很短的时间内有效,直到脚本编写人员将他们的机器人进化为忽略蜜罐,从屏幕上抓取附近的标签名称而不是表单id,并使用支持javascript的浏览器控件。

 

lc再次说道:“当然,除非炒作是你们营销计划的一部分。”是的,绝对是。当物品出现时的惊喜,以及当你设法得到一件物品时的兴奋,可能比你实际得到的垃圾一样重要,甚至更重要。任何消除先到/先得的东西都不利于“赢”的快感。

 

novatrust:就我个人而言,欢迎我们新的机器人霸主。我们实际上提供RSSfeeds,允许第三方应用程序扫描我们的网站的产品信息,但不是在主站HTML之前。如果我的理解正确的话,你的解决方案通过完全牺牲目标1来帮助目标2(性能问题),并放弃机器人将购买大部分垃圾的事实。我给你的回答投了赞成票,因为你最后一段的悲观情绪对我来说是准确的。这里似乎没有什么灵丹妙药。

其余的响应通常依赖于IP跟踪,这似乎是无用的(僵尸网络/僵尸/云网络)和有害的(捕获许多来自相同IP目的地的无辜的人)。

还有其他方法/想法吗?我的开发人员一直在说“让我们只做验证码”,但我希望有更少的侵入性方法,让所有真正想要我们的垃圾的人。

最初的问题

假设你卖的东西很便宜,但有很高的感知价值,而你的数量非常有限。没有人确切地知道你什么时候会卖这个东西。超过一百万人经常来看你卖什么。

你最终会发现脚本和机器人试图通过编程方式[a]找出你何时出售该道具,[b]确保他们是第一批购买该道具的人。这很糟糕,有两个原因:

你的网站被非人类攻击,拖慢了所有人的速度。 编剧最终“赢得”了产品,让常客感到被骗了。

一个看似显而易见的解决方案是为用户在下单前设置一些障碍,但这至少有三个问题:

The user experience sucks for humans, as they have to decipher CAPTCHA, pick out the cat, or solve a math problem. If the perceived benefit is high enough, and the crowd large enough, some group will find their way around any tweak, leading to an arms race. (This is especially true the simpler the tweak is; hidden 'comments' form, re-arranging the form elements, mis-labeling them, hidden 'gotcha' text all will work once and then need to be changed to fight targeting this specific form.) Even if the scripters can't 'solve' your tweak it doesn't prevent them from slamming your front page, and then sounding an alarm for the scripter to fill out the order, manually. Given they get the advantage from solving [a], they will likely still win [b] since they'll be the first humans reaching the order page. Additionally, 1. still happens, causing server errors and a decreased performance for everyone.

另一种解决方案是经常监视ip攻击,阻止它们进入防火墙,或以其他方式阻止它们排序。这个可以解2。和阻止[b],但扫描ip对性能的影响是巨大的,可能会导致更多像1这样的问题。比编剧自己造成的还要严重。此外,云网络和垃圾邮件僵尸的可能性使得IP检查相当无用。

第三个想法,强迫订单表单加载一段时间(比如半秒),可能会减慢快速订单的进度,但同样,脚本编写人员仍然是第一个进入的人,在任何速度下都不会对实际用户造成损害。

目标

将道具卖给非脚本人。 保持网站运行的速度不被机器人减慢。 不要让“正常”用户完成任何任务来证明他们是人类。


当前回答

与其阻止可疑的ip,不如随着点击率/分钟的上升而减少你提供给一个地址的数据量。因此,如果机器人击中你超过一个秘密随机变化的阈值,它将不会看到数据。登录的用户总是能看到这些数据。经常访问服务器的登录用户将被迫重新验证身份,或者被给予验证码。

其他回答

为什么你们不每次提供中行的时候都改一下名字和图片呢?看最新版本的BOC将成为追求乐趣的一部分。

Go after the money stream. It is much easier than tracking the IP side. Make bots pay too much a few times (announcement with white text on white background and all variants of it) kills their business case quickly. You should prepare this carefully, and make good use of the strong points of bots: their speed. Did you try a few thousand fake announcements a few seconds apart? If they are hitting ten times/second you can go even faster. You want to keep this up as long as they keep buying, so think carefully about the moment of the day/week you want to start this. Ideally, they will stop paying, so you can hand over your case to a bank. Make sure your site is fully generated, and each page access returns different page content (html, javascript and css). Parsing is more difficult than generating, and it is easy to build-in more variation than bot developers can handle. Keep on changing the content and how you generate it. You need to know how fast bots can adapt to changes you make, and preferably the timezone they are in. Is it one botnet or more, are they in the same timezone, a different one, or is it a worldwide developer network? You want your counterattack to be timed right. Current state of the art bots have humans enter captcha's (offered against porn/games). Make it unattractive to react very fast. Use hashes and honeypots, as Ned Batchelder explains.

(编辑) 你不能防御僵尸网络的说法是不对的。特别是我的第二个建议提供了充分的防御自动买家。不过,这需要你彻底重新思考你所使用的技术。您可能希望使用Seaside或直接在c中进行一些实验。

我同意OP在这里-请不要验证码-这不是一个非常woot的做事方式。

首先设置一些机器人陷阱。我会在主页上更经常地提到BOC,让机器人看起来不智能,所以每次措辞都不同。“中行投诉上升!”所以扫描关键词的机器人会被困住。

然而,我认为真正的问题是双重的,首先是你需要解决的性能问题,今天是机器人造成了一个问题,但它向我表明,有一个性能问题需要解决。

其次,这是一个商业机会,可以把一些真正的垃圾转化为利润。所以我将保持整体woot风格并声明“我们检查机器人”。如果我们认为你是机器人,你就会得到一盒垃圾。”

机器人检查将在销售完成后的某个时间离线完成,使用机器人陷阱,IP号码,cookie,会话,浏览器字符串等。对你获得的购买者数据做一些认真的分析,以决定谁得到了废话。如果你决定发布垃圾,那么你就可以把一些正常的垃圾卖给别人。

可能没有一个神奇的银弹来照顾机器人,但这些建议的组合可能有助于阻止他们,并将他们减少到一个更易于管理的数量。 如果您需要对这些建议进行任何澄清,请告诉我:

Any images that depict the item should be either always the same image name (such as "current_item.jpg") or should be a random name that changes for each request. The server should know what the current item is and will deliver the appropriate image. This image should also have a random amount of padding to reduce bots comparing image sizes. (Possibly changing a watermark of some sort to deter more sophisticated bots). Remove the ALT text from these images. This text is usually redundant information that can be found elsewhere on the pages, or make them generic alt text (such as "Current item image would be here"). The description could change each time a Bag of Crap comes up. It could rotate (randomly) between a number of different names: "Random Crap", "BoC", "Crappy Crap", etc... Woot could also offer more items at the "Random Crap" price, or have the price be a random amount between $0.95 and $1.05 (only change price once for each time the Crap comes up, not for each user, for fairness) The Price, Description, and other areas that differentiate a BoC from other Woots could be images instead of text. These fields could also be Java (not javaScript) or Flash. While dependent on a third-party plug-in, it would make it more difficult for the bots to scrape your site in a useful manner. Using a combination of Images, Java, Flash, and maybe other technologies would be another way to make it more difficult for the bots. This would be a little more difficult to manage, as administrators would have to know many different platforms. There are other ways to obfuscate this information. Using a combination of client-side scripting (javascript, etc) and server-side obfuscation (random image names) would be the most likely way to do it without affecting the user experience. Adding some obfuscating Java and/or Flash, or similar would make it more difficult, while possibly minimally impacting some users. Combine some of these tactics with some that were mentioned above: if a page is reloaded more than x times per minute, then change the image name (if you had a static image name suggested above), or give them a two minute old cached page. There are some very sophisticated things you could do on the back end with user behavior tracking that might not take too much processing. You could off-load that work to a dedicated server to minimize the performance impact. Take some data from the request and send it to a dedicated server that can process that data. If it finds a suspected bot, based on its behavior, it can send a hook to another server (front end routing firewall, server, router, etc OR back-end web or content server) to add some additional security to these users. maybe add Java applets for these users, or require additional information from the user (do not pre-fill all fields in the order page, making a different field empty each time randomly, etc).

看看ned Batchelder的这篇文章。他的文章是关于阻止垃圾邮件机器人的,但是同样的技术可以很容易地应用到您的站点。

而不是阻止机器人 人们可以识别自己,我们可以 通过增加难度来阻止机器人 为了让他们的帖子成功,或者 通过让他们无意中识别 他们自己就是机器人。这将删除 负担从人而来,而离去 评论形式免费可见的反垃圾邮件 措施。 这个技巧就是我预防的方法 这个网站上的垃圾邮件。它的工作原理。的 这里描述的方法不查看 根本就是内容。

其他一些想法:

创建一个官方的自动通知机制(RSS feed?Twitter?)当你的产品上市时,人们可以订阅它。这减少了人们编写脚本的需求。 在新商品上市前改变你的迷惑技巧。因此,即使编剧可以升级军备竞赛,他们也总是落后一天。


编辑:为了完全清楚,Ned在上面的文章中描述了通过防止BOT通过表单提交订单来防止自动购买物品的方法。他的技术并不能阻止机器人通过抓取主页来判断什么时候有Bandoleer of carrot出售。我不确定防止这种情况是否真的可能。

关于你对内德策略有效性的评论:是的,他讨论了蜜罐,但我不认为那是他最强的策略。他对SPINNER的讨论是我提到他的文章的最初原因。对不起,我在最初的帖子中没有说清楚:

转轮是一个隐藏字段,用于 一些东西:它将A哈希在一起 防止的值的数目 篡改和重播,并已习惯 模糊的字段名。旋转器是 MD5哈希值: 时间戳, 客户端的IP地址, 被评论的博客条目的条目id,以及 一个秘密。

以下是你如何在WOOT.com上实现它:

每次有新商品出售时,更改作为散列一部分的“secret”值。这意味着,如果有人打算设计一个BOT来自动购买物品,它只会在下一个物品开始销售之前起作用!!

即使有人能够快速重建他们的机器人,所有其他实际用户都已经购买了BOC,你的问题就解决了!

他讨论的另一个策略是不时地改变蜜罐技巧(同样,当新产品上市时改变它):

Use CSS classes (randomized of course) to set the fields or a containing element to display:none. Color the fields the same (or very similar to) the background of the page. Use positioning to move a field off of the visible area of the page. Make an element too small to show the contained honeypot field. Leave the fields visible, but use positioning to cover them with an obscuring element. Use Javascript to effect any of these changes, requiring a bot to have a full Javascript engine. Leave the honeypots displayed like the other fields, but tell people not to enter anything into them.

我想我的总体想法是在每个新产品上市时改变形式设计。或者至少,当一款新的中行上市时,它会有所改变。

一个月几次吗?